Improving late game

Sometimes even the best need help - just come here and you get geholfen

Moderator: Training und Hilfe

HomerS84
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon 26. Aug 2013, 16:17

Re: Improving late game

Post by HomerS84 » Thu 20. Jun 2019, 18:52

dm macro und rm macro basicly the same so nvm my coment
nC_$kittle_ wrote:ohne eine fundierte einschätzung von homers macht der thread eh keinen Sinn :(

User avatar
nC_PhilippHJS
Posts: 900
Joined: Sun 21. Dec 2014, 16:09

Re: Improving late game

Post by nC_PhilippHJS » Thu 20. Jun 2019, 21:08

Homer einmal kurz zum stänkern gekommen? OhMyDog
Dunedain44 wrote:Dune hat eigentlich immer recht, dem kann man blind vertrauen.

User avatar
nC_$kittle_
Posts: 3180
Joined: Mon 10. Oct 2011, 19:04
Location: München

Re: Improving late game

Post by nC_$kittle_ » Fri 21. Jun 2019, 09:23

Actually I am the prototype of macro player, i have never split archers in my life Kappa so i will try to write some text about it.

Mmaybe we should talk about the definition of macro first, i think some guys here see it only as "build 3 tcs and then vills or an upclick".

actually, macro is more like the good control of all tasks at the same time, including:
> control of your army = no wasting, attacking 1-3 Points at the same time
> proper reactions to attacks
> producing constantly new Units and build new production buildings
> producing constantly new villagers
> adjust the composition of your army to the opponent's composition (including the scouting-aspect)
> adjust your economy to the Units you want to build (f.e. many farms for elephants, many Wood cutters for siege)

when you know the RM buildorders DM is by far the best to get a better macro Management. Because of the fast Speed and the many starting ressources you have to make good prioritizations all the time which tasks to execute and which not. You need to control your armies well, attack 2-3 Points at the same time, Scout your Opponent all the time and react to his attacks/compositions, and meanwhile build an economy based on your unit composition.
Believe me, after playing some DM you will feel way more comfortable in RM (:3) (everything feels slow, too)

In contrast in a normal bf game you just follow a build order (walls + 4 tc boom) until imperial Age. If there is some Kind of rush (Monks, siege, UU..), it is more about micro than macro. In imp you got a perfect eco and then just build your strongest unit to fight with it in 1 Screen. I don't see many macro challenges there - actually it is more like an anti-macro-map because you can always concentrate on one single aspect (first eco and villagers, then composition of eco depending on composition of army, then produce army, then fight and control in usually 1 screen).
that is the reason why usually bad players or players that want to chill love BF and the (arab) pros get bored by it.

to your other two Points:

Siege Management: that is a mixture of experience and micro/speed. if you plan a push, always prepare enough siege (rams/trebs). Usually you should try to force a fight somewhere else before and produce your new army to the push.
If you play with SO on two sides, you need a good gathering Point. Usually it helps to gather SO near the production buildings (they should be near the fight anyway) and Switch sides by queing SOs via hotkeys and then use the new ones. Never set a gathering Point behind enemy lines.

Uptimes: That's just a macro Problem. Always try to make as many farms as possible as early as possible until imperial Age without affecting your Military production. And Keep in mind: 4 kts is already ~25% imperial Age. 4kts and +2def is 50% imp. So only Train the units that are really needed for defending or which can cause a lot of damage. You have to calculate that the Opponent can Train like 15kts with the ressources you spent for upping - the question is could they kill you while upping? For that it is very important to have good scouting Information about the opponents army (composition, size, Location).

If you have an archer civ, it can be good to imp with 60 vills, as a knight civ, you should usually get a better economy. always Keep in mind you Need a good army when you reach imp and click the Upgrades, usually it won't help you to have 15 +4chevas vs 40 kts.


sorry for the bad structure, I just wanted to prevent you from playing bf for "skill" reasons. ResidentSleeper
I will be online some days within the next weeks, feel free to contact me in TS so we can have a look on a game or two. HeyGuys

_Arc
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue 14. Jan 2014, 17:13

Re: Improving late game

Post by _Arc » Fri 21. Jun 2019, 12:48

thanks for the information skittle , very insightful.

even I remember playing a few DMs long ago in hopes of improving late game, I never did it consistently enough to take a major effect, but it does give help to improve understanding on mapcontrol where/when to push, unit combos etc.
@link_chaos let me know if you want do some 1v1 DM. we should be around same level and it should be competitive (unlike our RM 1v1s where i stomp u LUL )

User avatar
link_chaos
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu 9. Jan 2014, 21:25
Location: United States of Oil

Re: Improving late game

Post by link_chaos » Fri 21. Jun 2019, 17:10

@nC_$kittle_ thanks for the detailed reply!

Yes, DM definitely should help with macro. I will start playing games.

"Uptimes: That's just a macro Problem. Always try to make as many farms as possible as early as possible until imperial Age without affecting your Military production. And Keep in mind: 4 kts is already ~25% imperial Age. 4kts and +2def is 50% imp. So only Train the units that are really needed for defending or which can cause a lot of damage. You have to calculate that the Opponent can Train like 15kts with the ressources you spent for upping - the question is could they kill you while upping? For that it is very important to have good scouting Information about the opponents army (composition, size, Location). "

I always, always lag behind on this calculation. I never realized 4kts = 25% imp. I make a lot of wasteful armies for sure that don't do anything. Need to work on that.

@_Arc Yes let's play. I agree it'll atleast be competetive, unlike RM where I beat you with one hand typed behind my back.
hitman999 wrote:Link currently has 600 points, think he could have - 200.
nC_Snyper1 wrote:Yesterday as Pocket looked quite good.
nightmare team #1 11.11% (2/18) nC_Snyper1 + link_chaos

nC_Snyper1
nC Member
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon 10. Oct 2011, 16:53

Re: Improving late game

Post by nC_Snyper1 » Sat 22. Jun 2019, 17:00

Just some ideas from myself where i see often mistakes in games:

- Build your eco towards your army (a point that skittle pointed out already). this is even more important when you switch your army type, like being brits pocket and going archer in imperial age for example. You need to take vills from food eco and put them on wood/gold eco.

- Traiding! many people start traiding too late, mostly on maps with good trade it is good to start trade when getting into imperial age

- Vills/army proportion. I often see people having too less vills at start (because they stop doing vills when getting imperial age), then later on after a reboom, they have too many vills. you might have to delete vills later on, depending on your army type and mapsituation. If you gather too many res (like more than 2k) you need to either sling res to your mates if they need or kill vills to get a bigger army

--> Also keep in mind that if you are going arch/infantery you need a bigger army than going palas. I often see people playing archer and sticking to 40 units.

The longer the game gets (if you have a save eco), the bigger the army has to get.

-Idle villager: You still have to check them in a regular time!

Hope this will help, otherwise feel free to ask me if you like

User avatar
Iroh91
Noob
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun 15. Apr 2018, 20:48

Re: Improving late game

Post by Iroh91 » Sat 22. Jun 2019, 20:10

Im too lazy to search...do we got a dm guide anywhere in the forum?
Riza wrote:
Sun 28. Apr 2019, 23:35
Koreaner sind stark
und wer sie nicht mag
liegt bald im Sarg

User avatar
link_chaos
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu 9. Jan 2014, 21:25
Location: United States of Oil

Re: Improving late game

Post by link_chaos » Sun 23. Jun 2019, 00:09

nC_Snyper1 wrote:
Sat 22. Jun 2019, 17:00
Just some ideas from myself where i see often mistakes in games:

- Build your eco towards your army (a point that skittle pointed out already). this is even more important when you switch your army type, like being brits pocket and going archer in imperial age for example. You need to take vills from food eco and put them on wood/gold eco.

- Traiding! many people start traiding too late, mostly on maps with good trade it is good to start trade when getting into imperial age

- Vills/army proportion. I often see people having too less vills at start (because they stop doing vills when getting imperial age), then later on after a reboom, they have too many vills. you might have to delete vills later on, depending on your army type and mapsituation. If you gather too many res (like more than 2k) you need to either sling res to your mates if they need or kill vills to get a bigger army

--> Also keep in mind that if you are going arch/infantery you need a bigger army than going palas. I often see people playing archer and sticking to 40 units.

The longer the game gets (if you have a save eco), the bigger the army has to get.

-Idle villager: You still have to check them in a regular time!

Hope this will help, otherwise feel free to ask me if you like
The archer thing is true, i hardly make more than 40. And trading I usually start later than I should, especially when my team is behind. I think I do the rest of the stuff to the best of my ability. I'll also make a conscious effort to do this.
hitman999 wrote:Link currently has 600 points, think he could have - 200.
nC_Snyper1 wrote:Yesterday as Pocket looked quite good.
nightmare team #1 11.11% (2/18) nC_Snyper1 + link_chaos

saps_
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon 31. Mar 2014, 17:33

Re: Improving late game

Post by saps_ » Wed 26. Jun 2019, 11:47

I think you should focus on your dark, feudal, castle age rather than late game because there you fall behind everytime.
I don't know your voobly rating now but imo you should play 1vs1 arabia until you are a 1700. Watch pro players records and then your own records and see where you did wrong.

User avatar
link_chaos
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu 9. Jan 2014, 21:25
Location: United States of Oil

Re: Improving late game

Post by link_chaos » Wed 26. Jun 2019, 22:12

I'm 1700+ on voobly now saps >.<
hitman999 wrote:Link currently has 600 points, think he could have - 200.
nC_Snyper1 wrote:Yesterday as Pocket looked quite good.
nightmare team #1 11.11% (2/18) nC_Snyper1 + link_chaos

Post Reply

Return to “Training and help”